Just got my 15-seater van back from the shop again. Hopefully the starting problem is fixed now that 80% of parts governing ignition have been replaced in the last 8 months, lol. It's wonderful to have room for my kids not to be crowded on rosd trips and also have accessible room for luggage. Trailers are cool, but not having to get out to get supplies is a dream come true.

It has a V-10. Very beefy. 6-ton towing package, iirc. Its 0-60 is like 11 seconds, lmao

I'm pretty sure the LDS, the Mennonites, and the Amish are directly responsible for 80% of the sales of these Ford and GMC vans in the United States. I used to love watching a bunch of women and girls in home-made dresses, little white bonnets, black tights, and off brand sneakers pile out of one of these at the mall in Ohio. Watching the teenage girls shopping at a Macy's or Hot Topic was always an intriguing insight into how alluring the decadent society of mass consumerism is and how far the reach of commercial advertising reaches. 

Now, if it is a windowless white panel van in the desert Southwest - it is *still* probably still *people* inside it - but of a slightly different cultural, ethnic and religious background. ;) 

I always wanted one of those, a 2500 series - for camping. Couldn't convince my wife to do it. All that storage potential, secure from bears and thieves, and huge torque and towing capacity. Of course, you end up with an engine shroud because it is a cabover design... but hell, a majority of C-Classes used the HD 2500/3500 vans as the conversion for a *reason*. Why waste that space with HOOD and and engine compartment? 

Wed May 26 2021 12:34:32 MST from Wangiss <wangiss@wallofhate.com>

Just got my 15-seater van back from the shop again. Hopefully the starting problem is fixed now that 80% of parts governing ignition have been replaced in the last 8 months, lol. It's wonderful to have room for my kids not to be crowded on rosd trips and also have accessible room for luggage. Trailers are cool, but not having to get out to get supplies is a dream come true.

It has a V-10. Very beefy. 6-ton towing package, iirc. Its 0-60 is like 11 seconds, lmao

https://insurify.com/insights/car-models-most-duis-2020/

Statistical science verifies my intuition that Dodge truck drivers are more insufferable prick than BMW drivers. 

The white Dodge Ram is the worst. 

"directly responsible for 80% of the sales of these Ford and GMC vans in the United States" And Catholics. Basically all the big-family people.

I knew a Catholic car salesman who adopted like ten kids. He drove one of these behemoths. He could have any car he wanted, so he would just upgrade every few years to the most recent used 15-seater.

Anyway, we're putting old Bessie down. The van has had it. We could get a couple grand out of it, but my wife is sick of the sight of it. So it's going to scrapper for maybe $500. It'll be nice to be rid of it, of course. And out Expedition still fits all eight of us, but with no room to spare. Eh, we'll find something. We always do. The Lord will provide, as father Abraham said. ;)

So, in my experience, the Catholics have fallen off to somewhere between WASPS and the "Breeder" denominations - especially among Whiter, Westerner-er Catholics. Most of them are a reach for 3 kids... which is high compared to us WASPs with our 1.5... but nowhere near the boatload of 7-15 kids that they used to churn out. There is probably a bit of R/K selection going on there, too. Affluence tends to make you go, "I don't care what the Pope says, I'm using birth control." 

Maybe they've changed their stance on this too. Most of the Catholic boom is in 3rd world countries with brown people. 

So, the interesting thing is... my dad had 1 and done, my grandmother had 2, lost one, and called it done... her sister had 1. We're all WASPs. My mother is Irish Catholic. I have 5 half siblings, and whole ARMIES of Cousins, nieces, nephews, and other relations. Her sister had 15 kids, and has like, 75 grandkids. Mary O'Mally - I shit you not. An a top o' tha mornin' ta ya, if it suits ya fine... 

Expeditions are a high demand car. Is it Diesel? Or is it the Excursion that is the 2500 frame? They're both very desirable. Dunno why Ford discontinued them. 

Tue Jun 01 2021 13:27:21 MST from Wangiss <wangiss@wallofhate.com>

"directly responsible for 80% of the sales of these Ford and GMC vans in the United States" And Catholics. Basically all the big-family people.

I knew a Catholic car salesman who adopted like ten kids. He drove one of these behemoths. He could have any car he wanted, so he would just upgrade every few years to the most recent used 15-seater.

Anyway, we're putting old Bessie down. The van has had it. We could get a couple grand out of it, but my wife is sick of the sight of it. So it's going to scrapper for maybe $500. It'll be nice to be rid of it, of course. And out Expedition still fits all eight of us, but with no room to spare. Eh, we'll find something. We always do. The Lord will provide, as father Abraham said. ;)

I think there was a gas crunch that caused Ford to back off for a while and then new leadership liked the look of the Ford Focus, thinking it was the way of the future. Now if you want a $1000 beater, America is absolutely littered with Ford Foci. They all look like dated futurism. Personally, I can't stand the sight of them. 

I think there's an ancient instinct that causes humans to throttle back reproduction when it looks like we're stable and in danger of overpopulation. It seems related to but separate from r/K. I used to assume it was memetic, but now I think it's both: a instinct with a memetic manifestation. Humans across the globe talk about the end of the world (eschaton). That's another related human instinct we have a name for. When something is in literally every human culture, such as fathers being protectors and providers, it's folly to call it a meme, even though you can articulate and cite the meme. It's a human instinct that can't help but find verbal articulation, like Mother or Food.

I realize it's redundant to say "ancient instinct" but somehow it drives the point into a higher percentage of minds. 

Anyway, I'm glad my memetic bundle BIOS has an override. The commandment to multiply is still in force in my subculture, so my wife was prepared to give me plenty of children. Finding someone to make all those babies must be an absolute ordeal for secular Americans with procreative ambition. 

My wife would have probably given me 3 if I had... let her. She started talking about how we needed 4 door cars shortly after we got married - and we bought a Saturn to scratch that itch for her. 

But... I was not ready, and as a Protestant, that is absolutely a cultural thing for us. We do not tend to breed prolifically. Traditionally, we're the 2.5 American baby demographic... when everyone else considered that a very low number. 

Our churches have a problem with dying membership. 

But... I think her career has been *very* rewarding to her, and her personality type - not to mention a great hedge against the decimation of *my* industry by outsourcing that made it a particularly tough industry to remain consistently employed in since 2000. I think a lot of people would say that I denied a lot of the memetic manifestations that are manifest parts of global human nature. I encouraged her to pursue career and education goals far beyond mine, I took over the role as primary caregiver of our single child during the most critical periods of her youth, I sacrificed my career, in a certain sense, to make those things happen. 

And while I certainly took a lot of social criticism for those decisions - most of the people who did so don't have a single late model M series BMW convertible in their garage, let alone two... 

I mean, at one point, a lot of the criticism I got revolved around "relying on your wife's career to provide for the family," and it wasn't so much of a criticism of *my* ability or inability to do so - it was more focused on a kind of "how can you expect a woman to ever show the dedication or skill or professional commitment to be able to cope in the role of primary bread-winner? It is irresponsible to trust your wife with the financial security of your family's future." 

It wasn't articulated that way - but that was part of it. I am also glad my memetic bundle BIOS has an override. That is part of the reason I think maybe I had to go out and buy my own, less expensive BMW. I think I needed to show some that SHE was the one capable of purchasing the expensive one as much as I had to show that I was capable of purchasing my own ride.  I mean, initially I think it was a little bit of jealousy and insecurity and irritation that drove me toward this - but ultimately, once I decided on how I was going to resolve those feelings, and made the decision - those went away and I was left with... 


"Why does society have to make it a fucking "Her Car/His Car" thing? Whatever. She makes all the big money, her car cost more than twice what I make in a year. Let that be HER car. I'll get my own and be happy with what I can afford." 

And I am. Super... I love the little M240i. But this morning, picking up breakfast for her, hung over, I raced a Camaro SS while driving HER car and blew the doors off that fucker with *ease*. :) 

Sun Jun 06 2021 15:59:54 MST from Wangiss <wangiss@wallofhate.com>

I think there was a gas crunch that caused Ford to back off for a while and then new leadership liked the look of the Ford Focus, thinking it was the way of the future. Now if you want a $1000 beater, America is absolutely littered with Ford Foci. They all look like dated futurism. Personally, I can't stand the sight of them. 

I think there's an ancient instinct that causes humans to throttle back reproduction when it looks like we're stable and in danger of overpopulation. It seems related to but separate from r/K. I used to assume it was memetic, but now I think it's both: a instinct with a memetic manifestation. Humans across the globe talk about the end of the world (eschaton). That's another related human instinct we have a name for. When something is in literally every human culture, such as fathers being protectors and providers, it's folly to call it a meme, even though you can articulate and cite the meme. It's a human instinct that can't help but find verbal articulation, like Mother or Food.

I realize it's redundant to say "ancient instinct" but somehow it drives the point into a higher percentage of minds. 

Anyway, I'm glad my memetic bundle BIOS has an override. The commandment to multiply is still in force in my subculture, so my wife was prepared to give me plenty of children. Finding someone to make all those babies must be an absolute ordeal for secular Americans with procreative ambition. 

 

That is awesome. I'm very happy for you. 

Hah! Since I wrote that post, I found that despite *knowing* about BMW "gotchas" and researching heavily, it is *always* only *after* you've bought the car that you discover the big caveat that BMW has hidden in their specs. 

I loathe aftermarket tuning of factory specs - as a Californian, it just means endless hassles every year at registration/smog time - and even if you're in a fairly "free" State, you never know when California is going to extend their will into your life from afar in this regard. We already have smogcheck - although it is more of a token effort - in Maricopa county. But - my experience is that this is the slippery slope to getting society to accept ever more restrictive policies. 

Anyhow... there are some things about the specific M235i that I got - that are silly and stupid - that the only way to fix is an aftermarket tune. So I'm looking into that and it is almost certainly going to happen. 


In a nutshell, if the original owner purchases the M235i with the standard staggered summer tires package - its top limit is 160mph. But if they opt for the optional, free 225r18 squared all season run-flat package because they live in a place with rain and snow, the top speed is limited to 130mph (which is slower than my 91 e30 325i top speed was). This "locks in" as non-reprogrammable in the ECU after a certain number of engine hours - and even a BMW dealer can't change it. BMW *could* change it - but they won't. Even if you buy the factor staggered tires from them - they won't remove the original equipped 130mph top end. So, while there are thousands of 235i BMWs out there with aftermarket wheels and tires that aren't OEM equipment that will always be able to do 160mph top end, there are some, that no matter what, are electronically limited to 130mph and that can't be changed. Which is stupid. BMW should absolutely have to offer if you get the tires that would have originally unlocked the higher top end, to perform the service for free to remove that limiter. 

Of course, hackers figured out how to unlock that. So basically, you have to do a jailbreak ROM unlock of your fucking CAR - with the same risks that entails on any other jailbreak ROM hack.  Yeah, I'm going to have to get root access to my car's OS and change things - and then a dealer performing service might brick my car with an update that overwrites the hack. 

It is totally a "Right to Repair" issue - and one of the things that I hate about the Tech Industry and its hubris today. 

Not that I will ever GO 160mph. But if it is factory configuration of the vehicle - some other guy's stupid options selections in 2015 shouldn't lock me out from that option in perpetuity. It is the principle. 

I'll have to get new summer rubber and find the staggered 245s in the back matching the design and finish of the front wheels, too... so, it won't be *cheap*. 

I'm going to be broke AF for a while - do not expect upgrades to The Sanitarium any time soon. :) 

There are two kinds of people in the world... 

Those who are jealous of other people's cars because they aspire to having that kind of car themselves, but admire and respect that those people were able to get their dream car... 

And those who are jealous of other people's car and HATE those people for having that car. 

I suppose there is a third kind of person - who is indifferent to other people's cars - but I think they're exceedingly rare although *most* people would *claim* that they identify with this third group. 

I've been watching Youtube videos all day - I fell down this rabbit hole. Videos of cops saying the shittiest and most inappropriate things to people who own/drive supercars - and people in the comments echoing the same shitty, bitter, envious statements. Like - they go LOOKING on Youtube for videos like this JUST so that they can gloat in someone in a supercar being harassed by the cops, or having someone wreck into their supercar. 

I mean... when I was 25 or 26 I got a used Miata with 80,000 miles on it for $12,000 - and people close to me talked shit - about how it was impractical for a young family just starting out, how it was an irresponsible way to spend my money. 

My wife *loved* that car - and would have absolutely just gotten a new Miata instead of the M4. I suggested it kidding around, and she was instantly all on board with the idea. We had great memories, we travelled all over in it, it was reliable - and soon enough, we were upwardly mobile enough that we sold it for a much nicer, more practical car - for much nicer, more practical *cars*... that cost a lot more money - that weren't as great of cars - that didn't build fantastic memories, that we didn't *love*. 

And all the way back then I realized that if you can't afford a super car or a luxury sport coupe convertible - a two seat convertible creates nearly the same kind of class jealousy and envy with other people regardless of how much it actually cost or how reliable it is. The two seat convertible has a reputation as being a money pit of a car, or did before the Miata - dangerous, irresponsible... but mostly... 

Romanticized. They're carefree. In a world where we're supposed to be driving boring 4 door family sedans, buying a two seat roadster says, "fuck your rules," to people... and most people actually ARE Delores Umbridge. They resent the declaration of individual FREEDOM that is inherent in driving a 2 seater of any sort. Especially a convertible. It says, "While you're locked in your shiny metal box, I'm letting the wind run through my hair." 

People don't hate the driver, they don't hate the vehicle. They hate how those things make them feel about *themselves* and their own decisions and their own inability to do what they WANT, instead of what they believe is *expected* of them. 

They just direct that self loathing at the driver and the car. It may be a big SUV, or a full sized truck, or a Bimmer or a Lamborghini or a McLaren or a Bugatti. But it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Because eventually, we *do* become dicks. You cut us off, you ding our cars in parking lots, you flip us off and box us in and *make* us show what we can do. Yeah, the 2500 can crush you in your Taurus. Yes, those sports cars can blow by you so fast it makes your car look like a snail at full speed. Yes, the guy in the Porsche is going to park way away from the rest of you and take up 3 spaces making it obvious he doesn't want any other cars parked near his. 

Because - you're dicks. Not us. You are. Instead of letting jealousy inspire you and reinforce that these things CAN be achieved, you accept that you'll NEVER achieve these things and let the jealousy consume you. 

This is the rhetorical you. I'm sure no one on this BBS is this petty or bitter. But the rest of the world... I'd say it should choke on a bag of dicks... 


But it appears to BE a bag of dicks. 

I'm definitely a good-for-you vote. I love it when people get to have fun and enjoy themselves. People who don't have that opportunity often get cranky and impossible. But if you're poor maybe all you need is to go fishing or replay a lengthy game from your childhood. Getting radical on the freeway is great. Blast the music and zoom.

How's your sound system? 

My daughter rates mine, "Pretty awesome, but not as good as the one in mom's car..." 

And that seems pretty fair. It is almost the same system, but different door speakers. Hers are bigger speakers, in a bigger door, with a hardtop and a bigger cabin - so the overall acoustics in hers are what you would expect from a top end Merc or BMW. Something where you hear notes and instruments you never noticed before. 

Mine makes more of an emphasis on being *loud* enough to be able to hear the music over the road noise from a soft top. :D 

The whole reason for that last post was watching videos of cops pulling over people in exotics. 

One cop, a woman had wrecked into a guy's Lamborghini. Ripped the back wheel off the axle. As they're loading it up onto a flatbed, someone driving by screams "Get that piece of shit to the junkyard," and the cop waves and agrees. 

The owner misses it, but his friend is like, "that isn't very cool. This guy just had his dream car wrecked..." 

And the cop was like, "I just don't understand people pissing away their money on something like this. Guys who drive cars like this are douchebags with too much money..." 

It chills me to think there are cops like that out there - bitter and jealous and envious. The owner wasn't a RICH guy. He is a guy who decided he was going to make his dream car happen and put TREMENDOUS effort into getting there. He was *smart*, and figured out all the costs, and how to get to the point where he could afford it and then he did, and then someone in a late model Cadillac not paying attention sideswiped him outside of Stockton and her car got some fender and bumper damage, and his car was *wrecked* - and the cop who responded was like, "GOOD. Rich asshole deserves it." 

Another cop in Canada pulled over a guy from Dubai who brings his car over and travels the West Coast from Canada down to LA every few years in it. He knows all the laws - he knows he is going to get harassed because he has UAE plates, he has all his paperwork ready... and he gets pulled over ALL the time, and some cops are cool, and others are dicks. This one cop, wasn't exactly a dick - but he was like, "you must have a lot of money to do that..." and the guy responds, "not really." 


First off - the cop shouldn't be making assumptions like that. I've had a lot of nice things WAY beyond my economic means throughout my life - where people assumed I was way richer than I was - and I wasn't *rich*... 

But the thing that really pissed me off were people in the comments saying things like, "Fuck that dude. "Not really." Bullshit. I have no sympathy for him getting pulled over and harassed..." 

Like - people have sympathy for the poor guy who gets harassed and profiled by the cops - but when it is a rich person, they're all "GOOD. Fuck rich people!" without really thinking it through. NO ONE should get harassed or profiled by the cops (well, that isn't true... about profiling - but yeah, it should be done professionally and impartially...) You can't be anti-abuse of authority when it is the disempowered and PRO abuse-of-authority when it is someone you think is a member of the elite. 


Jeffery Epstein deserves every courtesy of liberty that George Floyd does - and in the eyes of justice, they should be treated equally in relation to the accusations against them. You can't want to fix it on ONE side and be glad to see it broken on the OTHER. 

But... again... 80/20 rule. 80% of the people have already tried Jeffery Epstein in the court of public opinion and would be HAPPY to strip him of due process - while they've usually tried the judicial system in the court of public opinion and want to strip due process from the justice system in the case of George Floyd. Because they're basically bags of chemical reactions making their decisions based on emotion, and not reason. 

 They *are* the problem. 

Wed Jun 16 2021 13:08:52 MST from Wangiss <wangiss@wallofhate.com>

I'm definitely a good-for-you vote. I love it when people get to have fun and enjoy themselves. People who don't have that opportunity often get cranky and impossible. But if you're poor maybe all you need is to go fishing or replay a lengthy game from your childhood. Getting radical on the freeway is great. Blast the music and zoom.

 

How's your sound system? 

Also  a "good for you" vote.  And I still want to head out on the desert freeway in your car one of these days.  Any of them will do, really.

I get shit on a lot by lefties when I point out that the rules are supposed to apply equally.  I guess it's fair to expect some pushback when our current system tends to let rich people get away with stuff, but the rules should be equal and people should see the value of that.  Otherwise what's the point of having rules at all?  

Heh... I was just thinking that... Even my *truck* can go fast enough to make you air-brake on the firewall. We'll do it, though - and not in the truck. :) 

And there is something there in the privilege of the rich that I was aware of but left unsaid... 

In general - being affluent allows me a different set of rules than those less fortunate than me, to a certain extent. If only because I can write the check, pay the fine, and it doesn't really affect me - I'm generally more able to break certain stupid social rules and even some smart ones - because I have the money to make it non-disruptive for me to break them. I am aware of this inequity in society - but I don't think it is fair to have a sliding scale of fines depending on income like Norway, either. If we break the same rule, we should pay the same exact price - not an "equitable" fine. 

I'm not sure what the answer to that is - except to make people understand the value of material success - because ALL problems that require writing a check to solve are easier for the affluent to address... and while people *hate* the rich for having this "privilege" (that in most cases - they EARNED...) they're also part of that mechanism themselves. Wealthy people tend to be connected people, people who have friends and friends of friends, and those networks are built off reciprocity. They're rich because they trade in something - a skill, service, product - that is useful and desirable - and therefore other people WANT to know and be on good terms with them. This part of affluence, the *influence* of it, goes beyond capital wealth. People without any influence generally can't think of anything to offer to grant them *influence* - and that is where the bitterness arises. Cato Kaitlin of OJ, Hollywood Couchsurfing fame offered *something* that got him on OJs couch. Being vicariously wealthy can be *better* than being directly wealthy. All the influence without any of the responsibility or obligation of wealth. In any case - when people realize you're wealthy - even the ones who think you're just an entitled douchebag with money tend to treat you with a level of deference that is *different* - and it is very difficult to consider NOT accepting that deference, maybe impossible - and from a capitalist perspective - probably not a sane move economically. I don't see any alternative to that system that works better than this one. 

Thu Jun 17 2021 05:47:26 MST from TheDave

Also  a "good for you" vote.  And I still want to head out on the desert freeway in your car one of these days.  Any of them will do, really.

I get shit on a lot by lefties when I point out that the rules are supposed to apply equally.  I guess it's fair to expect some pushback when our current system tends to let rich people get away with stuff, but the rules should be equal and people should see the value of that.  Otherwise what's the point of having rules at all?  

So... I realize that part of it is that I'm an old man - but increasingly I can't stand anyone online - and like Clint Eastwood on his porch scowling at the new neighbors - I'm pretty sure the problem is that younger people suck. 

The mean/medium in society, especially society in online communities today - are Millennials. I mean, this is *their* time - their late 20s to edge of Autumn. The tail end of what is probably gen X - the guys hitting mid 40s, a lot of them are part of the problem too. But most of them can at least remember when dial up networking was becoming a thing, had CRTs... phones were cordless - but you couldn't leave your house with them - and they didn't have apps. 


But the current generation in their prime - is a *terrible* generation that was pretty much raised on social media and with a lot of other societal changes that made them a douchebag generation. They were the punk-ass kids ruining Xbox and other online multiplayer gaming when I was in my early 30s. They're a generation who grew up on Eminem as their biggest star and Tupac as their biggest Rock N Roll Martyr. Justin Beiber and Britney Spears and Lady Gaga were their "Madonna"... 

They think *every* online interaction is a contest to see who can win - whatever the topic is - there has to be a side - and there is always a RIGHT side and a WRONG side. They're Team Twitter. 

Anyhow... they ruin *everything* they become active in - and they're becoming active in EVERYTHING. Comics, Sci Fi, Fantasy, FRP gaming, music, cinema, video gaming - whatever it is - their presence is there, and they're *massive* in numbers. 


And they're just so stupid. So... ignorant of the history of the things they love. They don't know the history of comics, of FRPing, of SciFi and Fantasy - not really. They've got IDEAS but very little of it seems grounded in reality. 

Evidently since about 2014, a huge source of anguish for this generation of BMW enthusiast has been the branding of the 2 Series 235i and 240i as "M cars". 

Now, BMW has been forthcoming that If it doesn't have a single number after the M, or just an M, in the case of the roadster, it isn't an M. They've *always* had "M Sport" packages for their regular consumer division cars - M trim cars that have some of the sporty queues and maybe some upgraded performance parts but that do not actually designed by the Motorsports division of BMW - all the way back in the e36 M3 division they had these packages. 

The M235i and M240i have been a slightly different story. They have actual M performance parts bolted onto them - but the approach is different. Instead of M engineering designing something unique based on the foundation of a consumer division BMW, BMW takes M performance parts and bolts them onto a consumer division BMW. It might seem a subtle difference - but the M is a unique, purpose driven car based on a consumer car, and the M240i and M235 are a consumer based car enhanced with performance parts. One has traditionally been considered "track ready" off the lot and the other is a car that will give "track ready-LIKE" performance off the track. 

But evidently - this matters *a lot* to the newer generation of BMW drivers. They fret and worry on the BMW forums about debadging their 2 series M cars so they don't seem like "posers". This doesn't apply to the M2, a *true* M car from the Motorsports division - but the 240 and 340, despite being on-par in performance with older BMW M cars, and even newer ones - are somehow imposters. One former M240 owner was bragging about how his personalized plate was "M Poster". Very clever, that little one. 

They're so consumed and concerned with appearances and perception among their peer group - and so prone to conforming to group think. Granted, here and there you will encounter the occasional member of this demographic who rejects the conventional wisdom of his peers - and stands his ground in the face of the inevitable dog-piling that he will be victim of for daring to do so - but generally - the majority of them conform to whatever opinion is dominant without question. 

The M235i, by the way, has been recognized by major automotive journalists as the first BMW in a long time to really return to the roots of the formula that made the BMW "The Ultimate Driving Machine." It is a car that many journalists compared to the E36 M3 in experience. To take this car and strip away the M badging because it isn't truly designed by the M division seems to miss the point of what the BMW experience was traditionally about. 

Now every Honda and Toyota can challenge a pedestrian 330 or 430i, and a WRX or Kia may make it look slow and sloppy. But this is as much an issue with BMW losing focus on *driving* as with the competition doing a better job. As the other marquees rushed to match BMWs legendary performance, even among their consumer division, BMW was taking their consumer division down to meet those other brands in the middle, making their consumer vehicles have more of a focus on bells, whistles and creature comforts at the sacrifice of being light, agile, minimalist and driver oriented. Today, many journalists lament that a Camaro ZL1 isn't just a match for an M4 - it bests it in many cases. 

The M235i is likewise - a car that in many ways is subjectively better than the M4 (and I suspect, the Zl1). It may not beat either on the track, or on the street - but what it does is deliver incredible satisfaction as a driving experience as a well balanced, very quick, thoroughly fun car to drive. 16 M Badges plastered on the car do not make that fact any less or more so. 

I've been fortunate in the cars I've owned and driven. My first car was a 1967 Mustang GT California Coupe. It was a beater - but it was a Mustang. After that, my second car was a 72 Datsun 510. We put an L18 small truck engine in that, along with sport rims, a 240z 5 speed transmission, and a weber carb, a set of bitchin' sports wheels, a front spoiler and an awesome stereo. It was a car I never should have given up. Starting out with those two cars, night and day apart, one a huge V8 and the other a poor man's BMW 2002 - was an experience most kids don't get to have by the time they've only been driving for a couple of years. After that, I would drive a Miata, a Mustang 4.6l GT convertible, a 328iS saloon, an e30 325i cabrio, a 2.8 Z3, an X5, an Escalade and just as many forgettable, average cars. Even some of those were fun cars to drive around in, like my '89 Nissan Pulsar, a Hyundai Scoupe and later a Sonata hybrid, and even a completely unreliable Land Rover Discovery. A lot of times it isn't the car or the brand or the prestige, but the memories you make in that car. Still, among these cars, the 510, Miata, 328 and 325 hold special places as being cars that were an incredible blast to drive enthusiastically. Many of my passengers grabbing for "oh-shit" handles and punching their legs through the firewall would attest to how enthusiastically I drove those cars. Most of them would also tell you that there was a connection between that car and me as the driver that went beyond what most Grocery-Getter rides deliver. I'll tell you - none moreso than the Datsun 510, although the e30 BMW 325i was close. I knew the very limits of the Datsun 510, and had complete confidence in that car and my ability to drive it right on that line. It wasn't fast, not at all by today's standards, and not super quick compared to the fastest cars of that time - but it communicated to me in a way that allowed me to drive it with precision that few cars since have approached. The E30 was a far more powerful, quicker car (though dated in performance by the time I owned it, compared to what other cars were capable of) - but still had a magical connection that allowed me to pull off miraculous maneuvers in critical situations that could have been terrible accidents otherwise (and not entirely the fault of me going maybe a little faster than I should have been). When you find yourself in a crunch in a car with no reasonable chance of avoiding a collision, and your car responds so instantly to your input that you impossibly manage the save - it is hard not to appreciate that vehicle and that brand, and my e30 delivered exactly that one day. I still relive the experience and wonder how I managed to thread the needle between two cars. The one in front of me had indicated and started to turn right into a driveway and then swung around back out directly in front of me. As I cranked it hard left, another car was coming out of that driveway and now facing me in an imminent head on collision. These cars were parallel to one another, and there was a space between the two that was not large enough to fit the 325i through, but I pointed the wheels that way, punched it, and *drifted* the car into that space, swinging it impossibly around until I was parallel with both cars, facing head on toward the car that had caused the entire mess - then sliding sideways past both of them in the oncoming left lane, I snapped the end back around, straightened it out, and went along my way as if nothing had happened. 

I do not know the M235i well enough yet to say it is on par with these cars - and I am far more cautious now than I was back then - so I may never know. But what I've experienced of it so far feels like the same kind of magic formula that the 510, Miata, 325 and 328 had huge doses of. 

In the meantime, the M4 has also been criticized ruthlessly - but this car ended up taking more abuse from the automotive journalist press while the BMW community seems to largely like the car. I don't think this is surprising. The M4 has been criticized for being more of a luxury car and less of a "classic M", and I think there is probably some truth to this. It also has been criticized for being less communicative and connected to the driver than past M cars. I get this, and I think I got that from my first test drive. I did feel like something was missing compared to my experiences driving older BMWs, including an e36 M3. In fact, in some ways the M4 reminds me of the Mustang GT. It is a big, GT class car that communicates a lot of inertia and mass in corners. It accelerates very quickly and competently. Oddly enough, it generally takes dings for not being as quick, precise or agile as the previous generation M3. This may be true - but after the E36 M3, that car had a checkered history as it tried to find the right engine. Eventually I guess BMW perfected it mated to a 4 liter V8 and this became a loved version of the car. I was always disappointed in the idea of an M that wasn't powered by an inline 6. Traditionally - the best performance oriented BMWs, M or otherwise, had an i6 powerplant driving the rear wheels. But the missing roar of the V8 M3 is what I hear people lamenting with the M4. I find V8s tend to be lurching affairs with uneven powerbands and throw-you-back low end torque, making way more noise than their forward acceleration would seem to warrant. Very American muscle car affairs. And the M4 actually recreates this experience, including the low-end torque, in a very quick-to-spool twin turbo i6. While I understand where some of the reviews are coming from on their criticisms of how this comes together, despite the dichotomy of their disappointment with the i6, even though it delivers a very V8 like experience except for the racket - I think it is largely a matter of their specific BMW experience expectations and not a fair analysis of the car compared to other comparable rides. 

That is - the M4 does have a lot of torque and a stiff ride that makes it feel a little unsettled and like the rear-end wants to get away from you. But, it remains a BMW M car that feels very settled and confident compared to other cars of similar size and horsepower from competitors. The steering is not as *quick*, responsive or communicative as other BMWs (including the M235i, for sure...) but it is quick and communicative compared to most actual competitors I've driven. It is, across the board, better at these things than the offerings of the competitors - it just isn't as good as BMWs can be. 

And this is where - in my mind, the M235i shines. It isn't a real M car - but it gets the formula right in comparison with other BMWs, and the expectations of a BMW experience. Maybe not as right as BMW has achieve in the past - but of the BMWs in my tax-bracket, it appears to be one of the best. I haven't driven an M2 - and if they offered a cabrio version of that car, I might prefer the M2 to the M235/M240 - but I also insist on having a convertible, despite the performance penalty that entails in handling, weight and generally speed and acceleration.  With or without the M badge, the M235i feels like what a *BMW* experience should feel like - even more than the M4 does. The M4 feels like it makes more compromises between what BMW *was* and what BMW has become. I can't believe that anyone who understands that would be hung up on if the M badges belong on it or not. 

Here is an article from Jalopnik where the author strains his credibility as someone who "gets" what BMW is supposed to be about. 

https://jalopnik.com/heres-why-the-bmw-m235i-isnt-a-real-m-car-1520587199



 

I also blame the Fast and Furious franchise for raising a generation of drivers - younger drivers - who put a big emphasis on style over substance. I think debadging really started with Audi and VW boy racers with this excuse that they were making their cars "stealth sleepers". But there is a hypocrisy in putting on an exhaust tip the size of a coffee can, purple neon LED ground effects, smoked out lights and side markers, and slamming your car to millimeters above the ground on super-fat tires and then taking off the badges and claiming that makes it a stealth sleeper. 


I suppose 95% of it is that the Track Tramps respond to the guys in these cars - and it is mostly about getting laid - not actually having a great driving experience. 

What I kind of really want: 

RIP Goldie, our 15-seater E350 Econoline van.

As a shuttle she moved senior butts from Provo to Saint George. As a family van she moved smaller, younger butts all around the Western US.

We're on to a Ford Expedition with a car-top carrier that worked for the 2000-mile round trip last week. It's older by miles but far younger by wear. Plus our little 93 Explorer that is SO FUN TO DRIVE.